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Comic Culling

Last post 04-23-2006, 12:52 PM by RichardM. 17 replies.
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  •  2/12/2006 10:20:15 PM 767697

    Comic Culling

    So we're setting any comic that doesn't have a link to us to unactive, and comics that have no votes are set to deactive after 45 days or so.  Good, bad?  I want to insure that the list is filled wit participating members of the community, and I don't want people to have to wade through a lot of comics that are long since deactive....

     Tonight we went through the top 70 comics and made sure each comic actually wanted to be part of the list, our indication was whether the comic had a link going back to our site. Out of the top 70, 3 comics were set to deactive.
    Once again just like last week if we removed a comic in error, the comic owner is free to log back in and set their comic back to active.


    Why did we only do the top 70? Well as I was going through, I found an old favorite comic, Fuzzy Knights! So once I got there I got distracted and started reading it....


    Anyway in the near future, the TWC spider (we have a spider, isn't that cool?) is going to begin looking for links going back to us and if it doesn't find one it will send us a weekly report so we can review the situation. Of course the good news from this is that most of you are now 3 ranks up! Also Commissioned had an old URL up, but Jenn gave me the new url so I went ahead and updated them.  I wonder how long they've been down....

    Ok, more changes are forthcoming, I'm still working on the security page where everyone can review the past 50 or so votes as well as possibly other information...


    Richard M.
    Grimfang
    "Whisper"
    Xaeraes
  •  2/12/2006 11:28:38 PM 767700 in reply to 767697

    Re: Comic Culling

    You sneaky, sneaky man. No ulterior motives here. No sir

    Technically we do have a link to the TWC. It's here:

    http://www.explosm.net/comics/view.asp?id=436

    Is obscurity really grounds for removal?
  •  2/13/2006 6:47:55 AM 767720 in reply to 767697

    Re: Comic Culling

    Hi Richard,

    There seems to be a bug in the system, because it removed #1 Cyanide and Happiness, which wasn't inactive. Also, since it had thousands of people vote for it, they used a button to do it which is a link back to this site, clearly. I'm sure that it's just a technical glitch, especially because now the numbers of the comics are out of synch - and that C&H will reappear as soon as the problem is fixed, right?

    All the best,

    Gianna (of "The Noob")

  •  2/13/2006 8:27:55 AM 767728 in reply to 767720

    Re: Comic Culling

    Come on Guys, lets stop being silly

    #1  C&H Doesn't have a vote button except for one gimmick comic.

    #2 According to the C&H forums, Matt said after a few days they'd remove themselves from the list.  Their button disappeared, effectively removing their support of TWC, but yet they continued on the list.

    #3  I clearly said in my post that if a comic was removed in error, the comic owner is free to log back in and set their comic back to active.

    I gave a lot of thought to this and nearly removed C&H from the list last week when I removed all the comics that didn't receive any votes for 45 days (and was created 60 days ago).   There aren't machiavellian plots going on here, its pretty straight forward.  Comics aren't being deleted, there is a checkbox in the web admin to set it active or inactive.  I also deactivated MegaTokyo, why aren't their fans complaining?  Probably because their fans read the post above and will quickly re-enable it or submit another one (those Megatokyo fans are persistent!). ;)

    Now as for the comics being out of sync, great catch Bekka!  I didn't originally compensate for comics being active or inactive, so now I have go in and modify the algorithym...

    Now obviously there is a demand from fans to see their favorite webcomic regardless of whether their owners want to participate.  For this reason I am developing a Comic Directory that will have all webcomics with an active URL (notice I didn't say the comic was still being updating, a valid URL is enough for me).  All comics in the list will instantly be added to the directory (active or not probably), then the TWC spider (for which the spider was created) will review the comic for being active and when it isn't active twice, the comic will be disabled in the directory.  This way comics like C&H that really don't seem to want to participate, or Megatokyo (which its fans entered on their own and have managed to get to the mid-50's of the list despite no vote button ever) can be found on TWC, but they won't appear on the main list.


    Richard M.
    Grimfang
    "Whisper"
    Xaeraes
  •  2/13/2006 9:27:48 AM 767734 in reply to 767728

    Re: Comic Culling

     RichardM wrote:

    #2 According to the C&H forums, Matt said after a few days they'd remove themselves from the list.  Their button disappeared, effectively removing their support of TWC, but yet they continued on the list.



    That isn't true. That one comic still gets us votes and thereby sends you traffic. Taking us off the list suddenly is a weird way to reward your top referral.

    Even Megatokyo fans went to a great effort to make a comic known, and you interpret that to mean they don't care because of the simple fact that the comic doesn't have a vote button?

    No worries. It's all in the past now. I'll modify our comic that links to you, put the punchline back in, and we'll say our goodbyes.

    So long, and thanks for all the fishiness.
  •  2/13/2006 9:49:07 AM 767735 in reply to 767734

    Re: Comic Culling

    Thanks Rob,

       I get a lot of e-mails saying such and such webcomic should be on the list, but there are a lot of webcomics whose owners "want" their comic to be on the list.  Soon enough there will be a link called Comic Directory somewhere on the site, and at that point a comic owner can "request" their comic be removed from the directory, that way fans can know other people can find webcomics they like (and in the future, can review those webcomics).  That will be the place for all comics to exist particularly based on fan input. 

    The TWC list is not just a random list of great webcomics, its a list of webcomics that choose to participate (which happens to consist of a a lot of great webcomics IMO).

    This was an awful lot of drama just about a checkbox.  Which of the 4 owners of C&H has the password to your TWC account? All of you? just Matt? 

    What would be really nifty regarding the megatokyo thing is if the guy who signed up megatokyo for TWC (which isn't the owner of megatokyo of course) were to create a fansite for megatokyo that prominently linked to megatokyo, but he put the vote button on there.  Then he could smack some google ads or some sort of merchandise on there, then re-enable megatokyo on TWC.  Throw in some forums, etc, I bet he could make a huge community and some extra money from ads and merchandise all based around being a "fansite" of megatokyo.  Dang, maybe "I" should make a fan site for megatokyo....j/k ;)  Of course next thing you know we'll probably have a dozen fan sites setup all by the same guy trying to milk a bit of the success of the various webcomics...


    Richard M.
    Grimfang
    "Whisper"
    Xaeraes
  •  2/15/2006 9:58:53 AM 767921 in reply to 767697

    Hmm [^o)] Re: Comic Culling

    My comic "PixelPalaces pressents: Dragon Knights" has dissapeared from the listing although I still see it on my account details.  I suspect this comic culling is responsable.  Fine, send it to the bottom of the listing if nobody votes for it.  How's it supposed to get popular if people can't find it?  OK they could go to Online comics or Buzz Comics but I suspect this is too much effort for some and you'd rather they didn't.  Are there apropriate links on my site?  If not, I'd like to know so I can fix it.
    Sedum
  •  2/15/2006 4:56:29 PM 767942 in reply to 767921

    Recap about the Comic Culling

    Ok, first I'm going to recap what is going on. 

    1)  Any comic that hasn't received a vote for 45 days, I went in and unchecked the box "Is Viewable" inside the comic Admin.

    2)  Any comic that I couldn't find a vote link on one of the below I also went in and unchecked the box "Is Viewable"

    • The homepage
    • The page where the comic actually is (all of the comics).

    Why?

    Because I don't want there to be 5,000+ webcomics that are dead links that don't have any webcomics to see, are dead links, go to something that isn't a webcomic, etc.   I also don't want there to be 5000+ webcomics that have chosen to withdraw from TWC by removing the vote button off their main page, and I don't want there to be 5000+ webcomics that have chosen to support other webcomic lists like Buzzcomix or OnlineComix.net but "NOT" TWC.  There isn't anything wrong with those comic lists, but I'd rather support, promote, and help grow comics that have chosen to at least support us by having some sort of link displayed on their site going to us. 

    My ultimate goal is to have visitors to Topwebcomics to be able to browse through the list and find plenty of enjoyable webcomics to read, what I don't want to happen is to have a new visitor find a ton of broken links, get disgusted and leave.

    Having said all that!

    What about if you had just signed up and hadn't had time to put a vote button on your site? 

    We deeply apologize for unchecking your "is viewable" box, and if you can kindly log into your comic admin and recheck the box your site will be viewable again for at least another 30 days!

    What if you really want your (or another) webcomic to be on the list but you don't want to have a vote button for TWC? 

    We're sorry, we really are reserving the TWC list to only those comics who put a vote button either on their home page or on the main page where the comics are displayed (because we recognize not all sites have their webcomic on the home page).  IMPORTANT!  We at TWC are working on the TWC comic directory where any and all comics are welcome to be listed, so check back in the near future to enter your webcomic or any other webcomic that you think should be in our TWC comic directory.

    What if you are new and have a vote button but don't have any votes for your site yet?

    You don't like your own site enough to vote on it even once in the past 45 days?  For shame!  Honestly!  If you vote for your comic once every day for 10 days straight you'll jump to about the 5th page from page 10-13.  Its a great and easy way to self-promote, plus it helps you to catch errors if something isn't working properly (we recommend you vote from your site to make sure everything is linked up properly).  Having said that, if you would like your site to be on the list but didn't have a vote so had your "is viewable" checkbox disabled, please log in and re-enable it! 

     

    Ok, so now we get back to Dragon Knights.  I honestly can't find "any" button to topwebcomics, but I did find Online Comics and Buzz Comix.  Regardless, I don't think your site was one of the 3 I unchecked the box for, so you were probably unchecked because of no votes, in which case please read the answer above.

    Thanks all for your understanding and patience during this time of flux.


    Richard M.
    Grimfang
    "Whisper"
    Xaeraes
  •  2/16/2006 1:04:54 AM 767964 in reply to 767697

    Re: Comic Culling

    Why did we only do the top 70? Well as I was going through, I found an old favorite comic, Fuzzy Knights! So once I got there I got distracted and started reading it....


    Wow!  Thanks Big Smile [:D]  That means a hellovalot to me!  Seriously, I always love to find out someone likes my comic... liked it enough to completely screw up the job he was supposed to be doing even! Wink [;)]
     
    It's kinda sad that FK isn't as "popular" as it used to be (I put popular in quotes because I don't think it EVER broke into the top ten), but as long as people keep reading it I'll keep writing them.

    Sorry I haven't been posting here much lately.  Sigh... fact is I'm trying to get a novel published as well as keep up with the comic strip a regular job, a life and trying to wedge in some roleplaying on the side.  So I have precious little time to be going on message boards (other than the odd promotional spree Wink [;)]

    You've been doing quite a bit here to make this list more accurate and fair (this spider-thingy, the vote anti-cheat method... though isn't 5 choices excessive?) and I think that's great.  As I told the people on my forum, I'd rather be an honest 50th than in the Top Ten by cheating Smile [:)]

    (of course, best of all would be an honest Top Ten, but I just don't have those numbers Wink [;)] )
    ---
    To Strive, To Seek, To Find, And Not To Yield

  •  2/16/2006 3:46:39 AM 767967 in reply to 767964

    Re: Comic Culling

    Sorry for being a nag again (I really appreciate all the work you put in this!), but now the vote buttons are out of synch :) My dynamic button displays 5, but I'm 4 on the list. If it's a problem to fix, I'll just swap it for one of the buttons that don't show the position.

    Gianna (of The Noob).

     

  •  2/16/2006 4:32:40 AM 767968 in reply to 767967

    Re: Comic Culling

    That's true, for me the position my button says and that on the list is 3 off.

    ---
    To Strive, To Seek, To Find, And Not To Yield

  •  2/16/2006 7:38:32 AM 767980 in reply to 767967

    Re: Comic Culling

    Hah!  There are so many places that I put the ranking code, and "each" of them had to be updated, I checked every variation on the vote page but completely forgot about the vote rank button...

    Should be fixed in a jif!  Thanks Gianna!

    *Edited (In reply to Mossfoot).  Thanks alot!  And no problem about distracting me, I was actually going to stop at 50 (because its a nice solid number), then I had changed my mind and decided to go 100.  So 70 was more or less enough until the automated system comes into play.  Is the 5 excessive?  I was worried that it would be too much trouble to vote at that point, but you know I actually was getting some people that their votes were about 2/3s false (which in theory if an automated system were to just vote on the first button it should be roughly 2/3 false) so I decided to push up the number a bit more and keep watching. 

    If its too much I can always move it down to 4 or 3.  What does everyone think?  I could move it down to 3 and create 3 vote templates and which vote template was shown is random so thus it would actually move it up to 9 possibilites....  Better for the voters, worse for the cheat engines...  Hmm....


    Richard M.
    Grimfang
    "Whisper"
    Xaeraes
  •  2/16/2006 11:23:27 AM 767984 in reply to 767980

    Re: Comic Culling

    Well, I'm glad you went to 70 at least, makes me feel loved Wink [;)] 

    If you are getting 2/3 false responses, then I bet you are getting a bot.  Dammit.  I'd say keep the 5 for now and see if that raises up to 4/5 false responses.  If so, shouldn't it be easy to track down the offenders? 

    I wonder.  What if you were to have, for example, a field of blank squares with one random square in red with Vote to confirm the vote with?  I mean, if you did a 5x5 grid (25 blocks) and only one says VOTE in red while the others are grey (or if a bot can read text, simply have them all say VOTE but only the red button will be valid, doubt a bot can read color)  Be easier I think than having to associate a picture with a name and all...(thought that is a cool promotional idea.  Maybe you could keep the pictures anyways, even if it's not linked with the security vote)

    ---
    To Strive, To Seek, To Find, And Not To Yield

  •  2/16/2006 11:47:23 AM 767986 in reply to 767984

    Re: Comic Culling

    If we ever get rid of or dramatically change the anti-bot security system such that people just click a button that says vote, we will still keep the promotional characters. 

    Originally for speed I just have an array that I hand-add the characters to (we have over 35 characters now).  In the future there will be a tab where you can submit your character via your comic admin and once approved, it will go directly into the mix.  And even if we don't require them to vote, each vote page will show a promotional sort of sponsoring character for that vote.  Mostly because I really like the idea and I want to support it into the future.

    We're also going to bring the fuzion comic back, once I find time to develop a really good system for it, I'll probably bring over some of the new code I wrote for dndorks.com's new site (which isn't up quite yet, but should be soon) so it may not be too difficult to impliment.

     


    Richard M.
    Grimfang
    "Whisper"
    Xaeraes
  •  2/18/2006 2:48:52 AM 768089 in reply to 767986

    Re: Comic Culling

    By the way, any chance the Fuzzy Knights could be made security questions? ;)

    ---
    To Strive, To Seek, To Find, And Not To Yield

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