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Prove God exists...

Last post 06-26-2006, 10:57 PM by MagicMinotaur. 169 replies.
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  •  10/2/2005 10:50:12 PM 757873 in reply to 749959

    Re: Prove God exists...

    Pip you asked "whoever wrote the bible was meant to be guided by god. Then why no mention of the dinosaurs?"

    Apparently the dinosaurs are mentioned in the Bible. Leviathon and the Behemoth. Half Angel half humans are mentioned as well. But for the most part all are wiped out before the flood.

    I don't know if anyone has brought this link up yet.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=315976

    This is about a famous atheist who now believes in God. His original article published in the 50s that included a fairy tale about a garden.

    To sum up his example to disprove God he told a story about two guys who find a garden. The garden is well maintained and one claims that there must be a gardener. So they watch the garden day and night and no one comes. So the guy says the gardener must be invisible, so they have wires put up and walk around with bloodhounds. Still no signs of the gardener. So far they have a invisible and ethereal gardener. One guy says there can't be a gardener while the other says there must be one because of the garden.

    It's a choice each person has to make. Science and logic and all the things have not yet explained the garden(which is a clever metaphor for the earth and reality as we know it). It is possible that science could explain everything in billions of year but it may end up proving God's existence in the process. As we learn more we realize how little we know. Finding out how complex and incredible life is and how much goes on so that we are alive right now is undeniably amazing.

    If this life we each live is purposeless and just another life then what is the point? If all we will know is suffering and the depths we can reach then why not end it?

    I believe that there is more, that there is purpose. The fact of being here my existence is proof that God must exist.
    http://www.ele-mentalfury.com/ - The way comics used to be.
  •  10/3/2005 1:31:27 PM 757912 in reply to 498097

    Re: Prove God exists...

    there have been theologians who used to believe in god and now don't because they have proven to themselves that the reasons given to people today by Christians, Historians, the Bible, or whomever are all fauly and insufficient reasons to believe in God.

    because the reasons given are faulty then they don't believe.

    on the other hand, there are theologians who, although they agree that the reasons currently given for believing in a god are incorrect, still believe in god.

    they simply claim that a sufficient reason for believing god yet hasn't been given... as they can't prove he doesn't exist, yet they don't prove he can. as there are infinite possibilities, there is still a chance that one of them is correct and therefore they have their basis for belief.

    trying to prove or disprove whether or not God, or a god or many gods exist is futile, irrational and somewhat ridiculous.

    it is merely what your own mind percieves to be correct. your belief. to prove or try to prove he/she/they dont/doesnt exist is an infringment on that belief.

  •  10/4/2005 12:03:02 AM 757955 in reply to 498097

    Re: Prove God exists...

    all i know is that muhammed ali in his prime is far better than anti-lock brakes.
    If there were ever a reason to ban internet usage
  • theory of people
  • would be one of them.
  •  10/5/2005 9:37:02 PM 758129 in reply to 757955

    Re: Prove God exists...

    There are far too many of your theoryofpeople guys for me to think there isn't a devil so therefore there must be a god. <--- You can use that on your site.
    http://www.ele-mentalfury.com/ - The way comics used to be.
  •  10/5/2005 10:23:55 PM 758131 in reply to 757873

    Re: Prove God exists...

    "It's a choice each person has to make. Science and logic and all the things have not yet explained the garden(which is a clever metaphor for the earth and reality as we know it). It is possible that science could explain everything in billions of year but it may end up proving God's existence in the process. As we learn more we realize how little we know. Finding out how complex and incredible life is and how much goes on so that we are alive right now is undeniably amazing. "

    Absolutely. Let me take this, and only for the sake of this debate, a little further and ask you, "Should the young children be asked to pray and thank God and what not!!!

    The thing is, science, today, is incapable of proving God exists. And perhaps it might, as you said, in a billon years, be able to explain everything and end up proving God exists. But equally likely it might be able  to prove that God does not exist. So when those of us who ask the young children to go to Church, Temple, Mosque etc, then are we not imposing our FAITH onto them? To give you an example, my wife asks my daughter to pray and I let her though its against my views. But I dont want to impose my views on my daughter. But my wife does. Now isnt that wrong? The thing it does is that it makes one believe in God sub-conciously. And by the time one grows up, its so firmly rooted in one's beliefs and one's thought process that one rarely questions anything about it.

     

    Again you wrote, "The fact of being here my existence is proof that God must exist. "

    And the fact of God's existence is proof that someone above him exists????

    And out of curiosity, let me ask you this. "are there no contrdictions in Bible?" Contradictions not just between two things stated in Bible but more importantly what is stated in Bible and what it is in real life?

  •  10/20/2005 4:18:49 PM 759376 in reply to 498097

    Re: Prove God exists...

    (going off topic for a moment)

    damn gadimus, that was hilarious! i just might use that for the site for something or other.

  •  11/10/2005 10:01:58 AM 761125 in reply to 758131

    Re: Prove God exists...

     anoopsaxena76 wrote:
    The thing is, science, today, is incapable of proving God exists.

    Well, yes and no.  There's so much evidence science has brought forth that God exists.  We can't actually see or measure God, so technically you can't prove he exists, but for me ( I believe in God ) just the facts (among other things) that our complex bodies are in working order, and that nature works with itself (bees and flowers, food chain, etc) means that we can't be here just because of some explosion or some such thing and that we were randomly created.  That just doesn't fly.

     anoopsaxena76 wrote:
    Again you wrote, "The fact of being here my existence is proof that God must exist. "

    And the fact of God's existence is proof that someone above him exists????


    I don't think that's a real valid argument, myself, so I don't use that, in so many words, anyway.  As I said, there is so complex a world around us, it can't be a result of evolution or some big bang.  Third law of thermodynamics (iirc) is that things tend to go towards disorder, not towards order.  If the universe was a big bunch of molecules, it's probably not going to come together and make an Earth, galaxy, stars, and get the world orbiting the sun and the moon orbiting the Earth.  Just doesn't fly.


  •  11/11/2005 1:57:16 PM 761237 in reply to 761125

    Re: Prove God exists...

    I'm really, really going to hate myself for this later on.

    I am an atheist.  I got to this point by thinking and pondering and reasoning, not by listening to anyone else.

    If you want to find if God exists, you can't start by looking in space or anywhere else.  "God" is created in the sentient, self-aware brain of the being that perceives a need for him.

    The human body is very much like every other animal body on Earth (except insects) in that we all seem to share the same type of skeletal structure, lungs, heart, etc.  If you stop and think about it for half a second, leaving ALLLLLLLL the CENTURIES of religious CRAP out for a moment, you begin to realize we just might've come from the same basic design, meaning a successful, living, breathing mechanism that evolved over billions and billions of years.  We even share basic skeletal features with dinosaurs, which we have seen PROOF of, mind you.  Given enough time, life will find a way to adapt, overcome and evolve... it doesn't need a Creator.

    Every living being is different.  Some are more complex than others.  Humans, obviously, are the most complex living beings on Earth... but what would happen if dolphins, over the course of a few more centuries, develop a true language and begin conversing with humans?  And then, one of them suggests they were created by a godly dolphin in the deepest part of the ocean named "Squeaky" that created all the dolphin race in his image.  Are they right?  Or is it up to a human to correct the dolphins' religion in that they were created by a human god?  Or, were the humans actually created by Squeaky?

    It's very, very difficult to begin at a basic point of thought when most of us were raised in a Christian society and our minds clouded with religion, but if you really stop and think for a while you realize that God, as we perceive him, doesn't really HAVE to exist and therefore never should have entered the mind of the human race in the first place as a weak method for incorrectly answering a few unknown questions.  Think about it.


    EDIT:

    BUT... religion still serves a purpose in society and that is to keep the lower and middle classes working hard and being satisfied in their lives (until they die) so as to keep civilization moving steadily along.  Even I see the logic in that... so I don't try to convert people anymore.


    So he said, "Cheer up, it could be worse!" So we cheered up. And it got worse.
  •  6/22/2006 11:05:59 AM 781452 in reply to 761237

    Re: Prove God exists...

    "Now it is such a bizarrely improbably coincidence that anything so mindbogglingly useful [the Babel fish] could have evolved by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God.
         The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
         "But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."
         "Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
    "
    -Douglas Adams

    sorry for eventual double posts



    Lalalala
  •  6/22/2006 6:59:25 PM 781485 in reply to 757873

    Re: Prove God exists...

    Read St. Thomas Aquinas...

    He uses philosophy, and logic, to prove that there has to be some sort of original, "unmoved mover".  That alone proves the existence of a being or something, that has existed before other existences, and therefore, has created existence.

    Think of it this way, we were created, have we always existed?  No.  We have not, because we have been born.  As our parents have been born, and before that their parents were born, it all spirals back to some previously existing thing.  Go back far enough you have some sort of creation of the universe, right?  Something must have existed BEFORE all that, and even if that being was created by another being, and so forth, it logically must have had something which created it.  However, assuming that you go back far enough, there must be an UNMOVED MOVER.  Something which exists without having previously been created.

    There is no good argument against this, so I tell you that your argument against mine will be infantile and probably not have truly any fiber.  Then again, people didn't believe that the world was round for a long time, and there's still people who don't believe the world is round.  Look online, you'll find them.

    Not to say I'm Christian or anything else, just I believe in something, not sure what it is, but there is a divine element in our lives.  Seems somewhat self-destructive to believe there isn't one, but you are free to believe it.  Just seems pointless to go 'you're wrong' since really, unless you can prove Thomas Aquinas wrong, I don't want to hear anything from ya.  Just try and refute me.

    Religion may be the opient of the masses, as Marx said, but it doesn't mean that there is no god.  So Katana, your argument is therefore refuted.  Although it was possibly a creation of corrupt, doesn't mean there's a foundation of a divine beneath it, that the religions of today have strayed very far from it.  I personally hate Catholicism and most religions.  Doesn't mean that I'm not spiritual, or that there isn't a God, I just think that most religions have lost touch.


    "... if it had to perish twice,
    I think I know enough of hate
    To say that for Destruction Ice is also great
    And would suffice."
    - Robert Frost
  •  6/22/2006 9:33:49 PM 781496 in reply to 781485

    Re: Prove God exists...

    I guess there is no right or wrong answer maybe he or it will reveal itself when the time comes who knows
    do not worry about getting into that tanning bed melonoma is just a scientific word for sexified
  •  6/22/2006 9:55:04 PM 781505 in reply to 781496

    Re: Prove God exists...

    Or not, if we atheists are right and when you die, there's nothing. You're just gone.
    I swear, now you're just doing it to piss me off.
  •  6/23/2006 8:42:08 AM 781515 in reply to 781485

    Re: Prove God exists...

    Is there a god : i dont know, but if there is one he is changing absolutely nothing in our life so why would we belive in him ?

    Afterlife : I think that there is no eternal afterlife because in order to have our liberty we most be eable to choose to cease existing forever. No-intelligent life can live forever. The only way there can be an eternity is if we reincarnate and loose all our memories, but is it different from just stop being ?

    Anything prove god exists ? no

    Anything prove god doesnt exists ? no

    Creation of the universe : before there was a phisical law, there was nothing that prevent anything form existing, so anything just appeared at random. Now there is arguments against the theory that universe was created at random but take this example : In poker, having an exact hand of cards has very low chances to occur but you will have a hand and no mather what hand there would be always the same chances thant you take this exact hand. the only reson why some hand value more than others is because we found that they have the same color or anything. So with the random thing there is low chances to have some thing ordered but you will have something. but was our universe ordered at fist ? no, it was just an freaking explosion, it took billions and billions years to start having something ordered...



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    Having fun is the only thing that matter
  •  6/23/2006 1:39:01 PM 781539 in reply to 781515

    Re: Prove God exists...

    I remain un-refuted.  Do you have any particular argument which is more logical or anything else?

    Phoenix is right though, proof of existence of a diety does not prove an afterlife, but still my primary point remains unrefuted.  I don't like the fact that none of you have approached any argument which attacks my position.

    In answer to Thunder...

    KevThunder:
    Is there a god : i don't know, but if there is one he is changing absolutely nothing our life so why would we believe in him?

    Typical Nihilistic tendencies, but it still doesn't go against the fact that you've contradicted yourself.  You won't 'believe' in something that has been 'proven' as you said?  That means that you wouldn't believe in the sidewalk you were walking on even if you saw it?  I don't comprehend your lack of decisiveness.  You can't say there isn't a god, and yet say that there has been proven one.  Choose a side, don't walk the middle path.

    KevThunder:
    Creation of the universe : before there was a phisical law, there was nothing that prevent anything form existing, so anything just appeared at random. Now there is arguments against the theory that universe was created at random but take this example : In poker, having an exact hand of cards has very low chances to occur but you will have a hand and no mather what hand there would be always the same chances thant you take this exact hand. the only reson why some hand value more than others is because we found that they have the same color or anything. So with the random thing there is low chances to have some thing ordered but you will have something. but was our universe ordered at fist ? no, it was just an freaking explosion, it took billions and billions years to start having something ordered...

    Then why did laws exist as they are set forward?  Why are some things logical at all?  That's like saying that if I touch the same wall a million times, it'll collapse, or that I'll fall right through it and become intangible.  Probability is just that... random luck.  But to apply random luck to fundamental laws?  That doesn't make sense.  Then again, crap coming out of human mouths doesn't happen all that often, so the fact that you can crap out your mouth rather than your butt is probably enough proof for your own flawed argument.

    KevThunder:
    Anything prove god exists ? no

    Anything prove god doesnt exists ? no

    Since you haven't refuted my claim... you've got nothing man.  Shooting blanks.


    "... if it had to perish twice,
    I think I know enough of hate
    To say that for Destruction Ice is also great
    And would suffice."
    - Robert Frost
  •  6/23/2006 2:26:44 PM 781540 in reply to 781539

    Re: Prove God exists...

    Blood Sorceror, have you ever considered the idea that maybe time is as infinite as space? We already know that time is neither linear nor consistant.

    You put forward a convincing arguement (although you do so rather aggressively), however you intrinsically assume that there was a beginning. It is my belief that the universe never began, has no spacial boundaries, and will never end.


    "Try and lay an egg."



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