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Prove God exists...

Last post 06-26-2006, 10:57 PM by MagicMinotaur. 169 replies.
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  •  6/23/2006 3:06:56 PM 781543 in reply to 781540

    Re: Prove God exists...

    I've considered many things, and I am open to that concept, but for the sake of argument... can you prove it?

    I am just defending this side of an argument, it's fun to do, keep people on their toes.  Your argument is better construed than KevThunder's, but still it's hard to comprehend.

    You may be right, just as I may be wrong.

    Still, it's fun to argue the point.  Reason why I posted here in the first place.


    "... if it had to perish twice,
    I think I know enough of hate
    To say that for Destruction Ice is also great
    And would suffice."
    - Robert Frost
  •  6/23/2006 4:54:06 PM 781548 in reply to 781543

    Re: Prove God exists...

    I'm sory, i did want to refuse your theory, but i think that the unmouved mover is not more complex than just an atom, but small thing can do lot : think of the atomic reaction that start just with a small misplaced neutron. If I'm right, this so simple unmouved mover would not be enable to interact with us in ways that really mean something.

    Other thing It's hard to thing that physic laws have not existed before. It also mean that time itself have not exited. To be posible it also mean that once a laws is wrote it cannot be erase. what write those law : the pure random, but once you have write enough that write anothers laws would goes against your previous laws then the pure random cease to existe.

    You can also say that for me the unmouved mouver is the random. and once everything is mouved the unmouved mouver dont have reason to existe anymore so it just go away. The random that we now know is juste a bunch of physical law to complex to be understand.

    Do you think that the unmouved mouver would remain here once everything is moved ?

    This is that or the time is juste a big loop and a loop have no end and no start.



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  •  6/25/2006 12:12:34 PM 781624 in reply to 781548

    Re: Prove God exists...

    You should learn to spell before you play with the big kids.

    The Unmoved Mover is a concept based out of Aristotle, a far more complicated thing than you can even fathom to understand.  It's based on the fact that in Physics, every action has a reaction, and thereforth.  Basically cause and effect, where everything is predated by something else.

    Example:

    I throw a rock in the pond.

    The pond creates ripples.

    One Ripple kills a bug.

    That bug was about to lay eggs.

    Those eggs were never laid.

    Those new bugs were never hatched.

    Therefore they never got the chance to exist.

    That is sort of what the Unmoved Mover is, but in a more complicated fashion.  More like.

    Example:

    I was born from my parent.

    My parents were born from them.

    Going back far enough we came out of something else.

    The sun was formed out of previous stars, in cosmic clouds.

    The universe was born in the big bang.

    What created the big bang?

    The final one in that string would represent the Unmoved Mover.  It is conceptually something which exists solely on it's own power.  It does not exist because another created it, it has always existed.


    "... if it had to perish twice,
    I think I know enough of hate
    To say that for Destruction Ice is also great
    And would suffice."
    - Robert Frost
  •  6/26/2006 6:46:17 AM 781667 in reply to 781624

    Re: Prove God exists...

    Sorry for my spelling, english is not my first langage, french is.

    I'll give you a point : if the time itself is not a loop then there IS a Unmoved Mover.

    But some questions remain :

    Is the Unmoved Mover can think on his own ?

    Is the Unmoved Mover can interact whith us ?

    Is Unmoved Mover still there ? (there must have been some thing BEFORE the big bag that create it. But now ?)

    If the answer of one of thoses questions is no, then most of the religions do not stand.

    I'm a existentialist and regarding only god I'm agnostic and if god is not some thing that can think and interact whith us, I dont care about him. Back when i had philosophy the philosopher thant make the most sense for me was Sartre and he is a existentialist atheist. Now you know why I dont need a god.



    read my web comic

    Having fun is the only thing that matter
  •  6/26/2006 10:57:39 PM 781723 in reply to 781667

    Re: Prove God exists...

    Another thing to consider is, unless you think that the unmoved mover is the physical material in the big bang (which I don't believe in, but that's the only old (age) universe theory that I know of), something had to create the matter in which we all reside (not to mention our matter). Something (I am a devoted christian, others believe in other beings or events), therefore, must have created the physical laws that dictate said matter, because everyone knows "Matter/Energy can neither be created nor destroyed."...it's not hard then to imagine that all of physics was written by the unmoved mover.

    "SATAAAAAAAAN!!!" --Alex

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