Under the conditions, a flood would be ruthless enough to be the kind of event that, if someone survived by way of a large boat with a number of animals and family members, the story would be epic enough to be repeated and told again and again, and some of these get exaggerated and added to and inflated, and suddenly you have something much more incredible than what actually happened, and it becomes mythical.

Indeed, there are tons of flood myths; not just the Old Testament.  There's the epic of Gilgamesh, which is actually dated to be from the third millenium BC, way before the Genesis story was introduced.  China has a flood myth.  Lots of civilizations do.

Parallel myths occur all the time, and the Bible, much to the chagrin of hardcore literalist Christians, is part of that network.

While I certainly can't point to any single origin of the flood myth and my scenario may be a bit speculative, it seems much more logical to assume that the flood myth is either an exaggeration or a complete fabrication than to make a number of logical leaps, tripping over physics and geological evidence all the way, just to make the Ark story tenable.  The more leaps of logic you make to explain something, the more prone you are to errors and inconsistencies.  It is much more intellectually sound to just go with the simplest explanation.

This process is also referred to as Occam's razor, because you're essentially "shaving off" all of the details that are unneeded to build a coherent theory.

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Um...but don't many creationists spend just as much time trying to disprove Evolution? 

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you all should realize that a creature being all knowing MEANS that it is all poerful because at that level of knowledge you'd have the ability to CREATE things with your own thought.. and you see the thing is JUST because people believe it so radically DOES make an almighty being exist.. except for the fact that an almighty creature does exist... its called humans.. humans are the unlimited potential.. as are all creatures... evolution proves the unlimited potential.. but the universe itself can be called an almighty creature as it could be a living organism itself.. I mean whos to say that the universe itself isn't a creature that we live in.. do you think blood vessels in your body think that their universe is a being.. no they don't.. but they know it exists...

 

now... you're prolly wondering why I'd support an almight creator.. I DON'T.

 

GOD in itself is a contradictory.. but THE concept of an almighty being IS in FACT a possibility.. you see.. the universe IS a complex thing.. itself COULD be the almighty.. BUT as you know we BELIEVE that science IS accurate and not a fallacy in itself.. SCIENCE... could just be SUGGESTION as you've stated NIEL.. you see if science is wrong then so is catholicism.. if religion is wrong SO is science.. so you see they go hand in hand even though they disprove eachother.. if 2 attributes of something conflict then its not a possibility.. the universe is NEVERENDING BUT IT HAS AN END... so the universe must not exist.. but then how do we exust... that knid of thinking pre-dates humanity when dinosaors roamed.. YES I believe despite their limited brrain mass that PERHAPS... dinisaors themselves were more intelligent then humans for their brain cells could have been more molecualrly stable then ours... or more developed.. you see they had far more evolutionary time then us so who's to say they were stupid?.. I mean Raptors.. are supposed to be 1 of the most intelligent of them.

sheeze... you're all a buch of hypocritical idiots.. you're logic is based on others opinion.. FORMULATE YOUR OWN OPINIONS NOT BASED ON OTHER PANSIES OPINIONS OR "FACTS" please.. basing your knowledge on somene elses knowledge is a fallacy in itself...  being intelligent cause somene tells you you are intelligent is stupid.. science in itself contradicts cause it is always false but always true.. it can always be proven wrong and right..

 

you have all forgotten that HUMANS ARE FLAWED AND SO IS OUR LOGIC... you see... if you were to belive in an almighty you'd also be incorrect.. because WE ARE the almighty.. if he created us then we are him for we each hold a different part of him.. some always forgiving.. some always just.. some always damning.. its incorrect to say someone else is the almighty when everyone is the almighty we just don't understand ourselves enough to be the almighty.. even the universe couldn't be the almighty becasue it uses us in my opinion which I don't want you to take to discover itself to explore itself.. so in all likeelyhood we were planned out but we were not expected to take form the way we have.. if you people would stop looking at it from a religious or scientific way and just BE YOUR FRIGGIN SELVES... you'd notice that everyone is spouting crap belive what you want itll only corrupt you so much you'll end up being someone you aren't now stop bickering over this meaningless crap you can't prove eachother wrong or right and please don't arguea against this cause its not likely youve ever thought of something like this I mean look at yourselves talking only about the material and the proven and EVERYONE ELSES OPINIONS!!>..

 

the fact of everything is that when you believe something it IS real... all you silly people.. god exists because people believe in him.. science exists cause people belived they needed a way to figure things out cause they didn't trust themselves.. the earth is round caus ewe think it is... the mooon is solid cause we think it is.. when someone THINKS something so much.. believes it so much. it is real.. we expected the world to be the center so for so long it was.. then someone fanatically believed it wasn't the center of the universe and suddenly it wasn't OMG WHAT THE FRELL AM I MAKING SENSE TO YOU NOW?? the entire existence of life could just be a fallacy that something BELLIEVED IN SO MUCH IT CAME TRUE!!...

in this logic I support with the fact that hypocondriacs beieve they are sick so often that they become sick.. I should know.. I kinda am 1. its a proven fact that.. things can be proven and disproven but the fact of the matter is.. nothing is truely what it seems.. EVERYTHING is changing.. the universe itself is evolving changing whatever.. the laws of physics may be unbending but.. when you see things happen... thatshouldn't be possible by those laws but are happening.. then they have changed to... so in al essence. the universe itself is false cause its not here yet.. and I've come to THAT conclusion cause of your logics.. the universe contradicts itself so it doesn't exist.. so we don't.. so how can I be typing this?.. now think upon this please.

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Love`kitten, wandering the world in a dissarray of blinding emotions, wondering who'll lift the viel and let me see, truely see....

I believe I'm rich and famous.

...hey, why aren't you worshipping me? Guess it doesn't work.

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Come, see Neko Girl Jessica's Place, a haven for RPers everywhere!

On another note, you're saying to stop basing opinions off of "facts"? So, in other words, everyone should just go around pulling things out of their a** for the rest of their lives?

My car can fly!

My cat just ate my neighbor's children!

I'm Supergirl!

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Come, see Neko Girl Jessica's Place, a haven for RPers everywhere!

Actually, troadon had the highest brain-to-body ratio of any dinosaur, the best prospects for intelligence among them, and it even had an opposable digit.  Are there any primative tools in troadon nests, though?  Nope.
The dinosaurs may have had millions of years to evolve, but evolution isn't a progression. That's another myth that creationists try to exploit. They create this lie that evolution only moves in one direction and that there's an intended purpose for genetic changes.
The extended length of the Paleozoic Era of millions of years may have helped the dinosaurs develope such a remarkably intelligent animal, such as troadon. However, it was just a roll of the dice, and troadon came too late for its own good.
In a fraction of the time it took troadon to emerge from the dinosaur evolutionary family, the mammals have produced a myriad of intelligent creatures. We humans have completely eclipsed and gone way far beyond what troadon was, and it was all just luck that we happened to have done it faster.

The whole "raptor" intelligence thing is Hollywood nonsense.  Sure, they were smart animals in the way any modern predator on the savanna would be smart, but they weren't the door-opening geniuses that you see in Jurassic Park.

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"sheeze... you're all a buch of hypocritical idiots.. you're logic is based on others opinion.. FORMULATE YOUR OWN OPINIONS NOT BASED ON OTHER PANSIES OPINIONS OR "FACTS" please.. basing your knowledge on somene elses knowledge is a fallacy in itself...  being intelligent cause somene tells you you are intelligent is stupid.. science in itself contradicts cause it is always false but always true.. it can always be proven wrong and right.."

I would listen to that logic, but then I'd be basing my knowledge on someone else's. I would use the instruction manual to learn to operate my home electronics, but, as that's obviously incorrect, I'll just fumble about a bit and hope it works. How, exactly, do you formulate intelligent ideas without prior knowledge of facts?

 

 

I believe you would have to rip a human baby away from it's mother at an early age and keep it isolated from all human contact/culture.  Then it would be able to truly forumlate it's own ideas without prior knowledge of facts.  Though, I think i'm being a bit too extremest here.

Don't forget Neko that if we hadn't based our knowledge upon others' proven theory, or non disproven theories, then we wouldn't be so advanced and we'd be making stupid mistakes all the time.  I mean, if I told you to go play with uranium without any protection, and that you'd be fine, would you do it?   

its obvious that you people are shut off to what I'm getting at here..

 

okay look.. Terra... you have somoene to care for you correct.. then YOU are rich.. the fact of the matter is I'd die to have what you have.. you are famous in MY eyes.. and just because 1 person believes rediculously in something doesn't mean it'll be true... you did that just because you thought I was a joke..

 

and you others.. you don't absorb what exactly I wanted to get across... I'm not talking about everyday things like a can opener opens cans.. I'm talking about religion and all that.. THAT IS what this debate is about right..

 

and about the dinosaors... do you think all highly intelligent creatures WANT to create things that'll DESTROY their world.. I mean LOOK WTF WE ARE DOING TO THE EARTH!!.. its practically DEAD AT THE FRECKING DOOR!.. look at us... we are the flood in the bible... look how we've overpopulated the world in such a short time... huh.. did you think that maybe the flood wasn't of water but maybe of flesh and blood like the rest of the crap in there that MIGHT be substanciated..

 

you see none of you.. are truely intellectuals for you ONLY accept the opinions of PROVEN and I say that lightly... scientists and religious people EVEN if I do make good points. OH OH AND WHAT ABOUT THE UNIVERSE BEING CONDRADICTIVE OF ITSELF THEREFORE IT MUSN'T EXIST!!.. you skipped that didn't ya your own crap in your face..

 

DON'T FRECKING JUDGE ME ON YOUR IDIOTIC TENDENCIES!... i love the world I live in but I hate it does that mean I don't exist!.. NO CAUSE HALF THE FRICKING WORLD HATES AND LOVES THIS WORLD!>.. I hate my family but I loev them... my family is disappointed in me but they are proud...

I'm personally annoyed by you all... because of your closemindedness and the fact that you aren't even trying to comprehend this.. THIS ISN'T YOUR SCIENTIFIC CRAP!!.. I formulated this after listening to you all.. and many others over my short existence in this life... and I came up with the "theory" that maybe we ARE FLAWED BEING!... and that our logic COULD be incorrect.. and the fact of the matter is if you didn't READ THAT TOO NIEL!.. is that the universe has sped up and slowed its OWN movement outward itself so think about that... Kirby's thing about at 1 time the galaxies being so close IS correct for if you think about it the universe formed from the big bang.. (yes my personal belief is this even though my BS is about not taking others opinions it makes sense to me ike your peroples opinions make sense to you) proves that IF a star WERE to be MOVING at the speeds a big bang would toss it MAYBE we would recieve light from it earlier then supposed to from its oh.. current point... of course you didn't think about how a star could ahve alreadty formed huh.. or maybe our solar system is MOVING towards their's huh... oh and look... its been proven/theorized that thew universe is collapsing upon itself cause some galaxies are moving towards us and some are still moving away but this could be untrue as we only recieve light thats very old.. what if there were a scientifical phenomina such as a wormhole that transported LIGHT to us as wormholes in technicality are unaffected by time/space travel.. except for when they form theoretically... then it'd get to us quicker maybe.. but yet you stil won't listen to me...

 

YES. youdo have valid points.. albeit what you've used to counteract my own beliefs are flawed and unsubstantiated.. and Terra you prove my point even more about how  humans are flawed.. look what you did... you mocked me... you didn't even take in the fact that its quite possible that alot of what I said was true did you. that hurts alot.. but I don't care.. cause I know we make mistakes. we are as it is said.. "only human" and how many people have made THAT quote.. huh... OVER 100 million people.. oh oh.. no.. is that over 2 billion people... YES!..

 

and I'm not saying people shouldn't be educated or have things affect them.. but the thing is.. if we all thought like you few... then we'd be getting nowhere would we?... we'd just sit around flapping our mouths about crap. OH OH WOULDN'T THE INQUISITION STILL BE HERE HUH!!!.. yeah.. look at that.. did a bunch of religious people believe so strongly that people did MAGIC worshipping satan that they found EVIDENCE HUH!... how do you think thats possible?... oh maybe cause its about what I've been saying... its just another version of suggestionism.. loook at al of you.. look at me... I personally know that its my opinion.  and that I'm flawed and I take others opinions too seriously and all that crap.. Ive accepted it.. but you all think you're all big and bad just cause you have "facts* nothing is truely fact.... nothing.. don't you see... everything could be proven false 1 day and you'd all crumble like a box.. nothing you ever thought was true weas true.. but then why were they proven FACTS?... what if 1 day someone defied gravity without the use of wings or anythign but their mind... that defies physics.. oh but that isn't possible it'd make the laws of physics untrue?.. well..

 

I grow weiry of this as.. I know no one will truely listen to what I've said... I've gotten through to 1 person. that is enough for me.. its not for me to change the opinions of the world.. only those who will listen... and the fact is I'll forget about this ever happening.. for it is truely a human mistake... ^_^ in my eyes.

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Love`kitten, wandering the world in a dissarray of blinding emotions, wondering who'll lift the viel and let me see, truely see....

"you see none of you.. are truely intellectuals for you ONLY accept the opinions of PROVEN and I say that lightly... scientists and religious people EVEN if I do make good points."

That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.  The whole POINT of science is to base theories and on what is known.  Are you suggesting that we just think about stuff that is completely unsubstantiated?  That's absurd!

 

"OH OH AND WHAT ABOUT THE UNIVERSE BEING CONDRADICTIVE OF ITSELF THEREFORE IT MUSN'T EXIST!!"

Oh oh!  In what way does the universe contradict itself?

 

"DON'T FRECKING JUDGE ME ON YOUR IDIOTIC TENDENCIES!"

I think we're actually judging you on your idiotic tendancies.  You've brought nothing to this debate but speculative nonsense.  And furthermore, you're sitting here criticizing us for debating something.  Why, you'd think this was a debate forum or something!  I must have missed the sign that said that arguments from reason and knowledge do not apply.

You may think you're making sense, but you're really not.  You're just being a forum troll, trying to get under people's skin.  Sure, you may be typing furiously and getting your caps lock button stuck, I imagine, but you've added practically nothing to this topic.

Many words spoken, but nothing have you said.

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*sigh* and he still fails to open his eyes to the world that is truely before his eyes..

 

 

the universe contradicts that it is never ending but yet has an end.. it is grand yet so simple.. it is all knowing becuase it is everything yet it knows not itself.. therefore contradicting itself... and science has NEVER been proven to be truely accuarte.. tell me that everything that man has come up with is true and I'll alugh in your face.. the real thing here is that humans aren't perfect and neither is technology.. therefore if something is flawed it can never truely be trusted.. and as we are IMPROVEING on our technology and our knowledge doesn't that mean we and our own thoughts are flawed.. in essence that DOES mean.. that we aren't really sure if half the crap we say is true is actually true.

 

and no my foe... I don't have my CAP LOCKS. on or stuck... those are for emphasis.. and yes... I may have some idiotic tendencies but as do you you still fail to see my point as close minded as you'll always be I've gotten through to the 1 person I will only ever need to.. and yes however nonsense it may seem to you its just because you are so closed minded that you do not percieve what I'm saying... therefore again.. a flaw all humans have... you've even failed to point out that I myself have negate science just by being able to KNOW that it has flaws and that our entiere way of thinking could be incorrect... its not for me to get through to you.. I may not be as intellectually experienced as you but it appears that some value intellect instead of wisdom.. and a word to the intelect... just because you are smart.. doesn't mean you are intelligent.. for the smartest boy in the world may still not know true happiness... in which wisdom will not bring wither.. but the wisest man in the world need nothing but his friends and loved 1's to be happy. albeit.. I'm not 1 to be saying this.. and like I said.. i grow weiry of this... and also hurt that people still believe themselves perfect.. ^_^

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Love`kitten, wandering the world in a dissarray of blinding emotions, wondering who'll lift the viel and let me see, truely see....

In other words, nothing matters because everything is flawed.

Wow. That is very depressing. I don't matter, because I have flaws. You don't matter, because you have flaws. The world doesn't matter, the sky doesn't matter, love, family, relationships, it's all moot because everything has a flaw.

I pity you.

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Come, see Neko Girl Jessica's Place, a haven for RPers everywhere!

no. its flawed and we are flawed.. we still matter cause we have a purpose.. to be flawed.. if we were perfect that'd defeat why the universe exists.. ^_^ the way I see it doing things like these defeats the purpose of us existing cause it gets in the wayof actual progress... ^_^ but eh.

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Love`kitten, wandering the world in a dissarray of blinding emotions, wondering who'll lift the viel and let me see, truely see....

"the universe contradicts that it is never ending but yet has an end.. it is grand yet so simple.. it is all knowing becuase it is everything yet it knows not itself.. therefore contradicting itself..."

Those aren't contradictions of the universe.  Those are contradictions of subjective observation.  Grand and simple are subjective terms.  You're not even being specific about how the universe is grand and/or simple.  Is the whole universe doing that or are two separate attributes of that universe exemplifying that observation?  For example, you could say that the universe is grand in size but simple in concept.  That's not contradicting.  When you use subjective terms, you can pretty much point them at anything.
Besides, I don't see how grand is necessarily the absolute antonym of simple anyway.  Wouldn't complexity be the opposite of simple?  But good luck objectifying those terms.
And I think you mean that the vaccuum of space is what never ends.  After all... it's nothing.  The universe ends.  Space does not.

"...and science has NEVER been proven to be truely accuarte.. tell me that everything that man has come up with is true and I'll alugh in your face.. the real thing here is that humans aren't perfect and neither is technology.. therefore if something is flawed it can never truely be trusted.. and as we are IMPROVEING on our technology and our knowledge doesn't that mean we and our own thoughts are flawed.. in essence that DOES mean.. that we aren't really sure if half the crap we say is true is actually true."

Do you know why we have science?  Science isn't dogmatic.  It's the search for truth.  It's not the truth.  I think you have a problem here where you think that just because science isn't 100%, that all is hopeless.  Look, if everything was 100%, there wouldn't be much of a life to live.  Science is an exciting adventure of learning.  And I'm glad that adventure can never end.  You can never learn everything.  Good!

"and no my foe... I don't have my CAP LOCKS. on or stuck... those are for emphasis.."

That's why message boards have evolved to the point to include bold, italics, and underline to express emphasis.

"and yes... I may have some idiotic tendencies..."

No argument there.

"but as do you you still fail to see my point as close minded as you'll always be I've gotten through to the 1 person I will only ever need to.. and yes however nonsense it may seem to you its just because you are so closed minded that you do not percieve what I'm saying..."

Because you're talking nonsense.  So what if we're flawed?  You want to be perfect?  I don't get where you're going with this?  You act like everything's hopeless, and it's not.
Look, if you have an inferiority complex just because you're human and you make mistakes, don't come in here with an attitude trying to bring everyone else down.

"therefore again.. a flaw all humans have... you've even failed to point out that I myself have negate science just by being able to KNOW that it has flaws and that our entiere way of thinking could be incorrect..."

Of course there are flaws.  Everything has flaws, but why reject the whole thing?  That doesn't make sense.  That thing that you're typing on right now was developed with the same principle of scientific analysis and testing that biological and geological theories have in their analysis.  Are you going to surrender to living in a mud hutt just because science isn't perfect?!  I mean, science is everywhere.  Do you know that?!
Science takes into consideration the possibility of error.  There is no theory in science that isn't being continuously tested to this very day, with the sole exception of those theories already proven false.  It's not wham-bam... quick theory and then it's in a text book.  This is serious work, and I think, living in this country, you owe it a little more respect than that.

"its not for me to get through to you.. I may not be as intellectually experienced as you but it appears that some value intellect instead of wisdom.. and a word to the intelect... just because you are smart.. doesn't mean you are intelligent.."

This is a debate!  This is a clash of intellect.  What the hell do you want?!

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Its not that we don't matter because we are flawed. Both are true, but entirely unrelated.

 

And stop flaming each other, just agree to disagree and keep debating without pissing each other off.