Is it really the end of the world if your gay, lesbian or bi? Do you have some kind of disease, or a so called virus that keeps you from passing thought the firewall of heaven (if there even is one!). Though I'm not gay or bi myself, phobia of this still exists mainly because of religion. Are you disturbed by gay, lesbian or bi-sexual people? Because chances are, they could be your friends, family or just that nice lady at the counter ready to take your order. I have a good friend that is unfortunely, very homophobic. He is Christian so he was forced to believe that all these sexual prefences were from the devil. I could never mention any of these things or ill be shrugged off. Don't get him wrong, he's a really nice guy and a good friend, but he's just not that open minded on the issue. So answer me, is it really wrong to be that way? Just to be born like that?

I have known, still know, hang out with and even lived with such people (past room mates).  Personally it's never an issue for me, I don't care one way or the other.  The only thing that bothers me are the flamboantly gay men that just act so peculiar but I would be bother by anyone with really outlandish behaviors - basically anyone that takes something to the extreme.  Salesmen bug me the most: overly friendly but shallow.

I feel bad for your friend because it means he is easily influenced by what he is told and hasn't actually read the Bible and made his own decisions (I consider myself a non-practicing Christian).  The strongest arguement in the Bible has to do with the destruction of Sodom and Gamora.  There the people praticed all forms of vile practices for which not even 50 righteous men could be found and thus the cities were struck down by God's Wrath.  Included in this list of depravity were men that practiced sodomy but well not limited to.  Far worse were the acts of rape and general misconduct.  Basically the people there were so horrible to one another that there was no good left.  If you want an example of a society that was heavy into sodomy and depraved sexual acts (including pedophiles), ancient Rome has tons of such tales but it wasn't torn down in God's Wrath.  No, it came down from its own corruption.  The result of its society's growing depravity and decadence.  There are several other stories of similar morale lesson that have nothing to do with the act itself but with the affect on the well-being of society.  Sodom and Gamora was not punished because some men screwed each other but because the people of the towns were so evil, so vile to each other that they became a pack of wild barbarians with no respect for anyone except their own lusts.  There is no mention anywhere in the Bible of a commandant, command or speach of either God or Jesus that says "No gays!".  What is taught is that acts of depravity of any sort can lead to obsession and addiction and ultimately lead to a breakdown of a society if left unchecked.  People in the Bible that praticed such things were looked down upon because the acts it non-benefical to society or social order and structure.  You don't want a whole society practicing it.  If everyone was gay, there would be a huge drop in birth rate (modern science not forgiving) and our race would die out within a generation.

I also don't think someone can be born gay.  To do so invites the concept of genetics and therefore genetic mutation that causes someone to be gay.  Then such behavior can be considered a genetic disorder and also an evolutionary dead-end since two of the same gender can't mate without outside intervention.  My personal theory is that homosexuality is a result of environment and something known as population stress.  In nature we know there are certain frogs that will change gender when their population is too heavy one way or the other.  Perhaps humans do this on a social level.  As I said, it's a theory.

As a side note, I think two women are hot but only because it's two of something I like.  I wonder if women think the same way about two guys.

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The Views of Site Smith Scott do not reflect the views of DnDorks.com. So get a real job, move out of your parents home, live in the real world and get over it.

It doesn't bug me that much. What bugs me is the fact that there are people out there that think about people doing it with people that are the same sex. That is what bugs me. Allso this is not any new topic seeing that there has always been people that have been gay all in history.

Anways I agree with sitesmithscott on the point of being born gay.

 Why is there an issue about other peoples' thoughts?  Ever thought about murder?  Gay people are here to stay, we have to just accept it.  Does it really hurt us to know that there are men that have sex with other men?  Although, I do have to say that I am sick of hearing about them, though, I wish that they would just come down from their collective crosses.  They put themselves there.

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My humble webcomic

Why do you hate homosexuals? It has been conclusively proven that sexual orientation is genetically, ot socially determined. It also doesn't meet the requirements for being considered a mental disorder. You're saying they should either deny that a certain part of themselves exist, or be wiped from existence, simply because you and others confuse their personal tastes with morality? No one should be self loathing, especially not because of something they can't help. I am straight personally, but I have plenty of friends who are bi or homosexual. And I resent the idea that they or anyone else should be denied the right to live their lives how they want or marry the people they love.

And sitesmithscott, whether or not it's hot depends on the hotness of the guys kissing. And even then it's more of a bummer because it means they aren't available, and probably wouldn't be interested even if they were.

P.S. Cookie and roger x 72, you misspelled Kamakazi.

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I swear, now you're just doing it to piss me off.

Yeah, being gay's never been a big issue to me.  I live in a small town with a lot of... how do you say... red neck hillbillies, and I hear alot of gay-bashing it truly makes me sick.  Most of these guys assume if one is gay they're out to butt-rape evey guy they see.  I just don't understand how they could get that assumption.  They all eat hamburgers, but none of them would go around eating every hamburger they see.  just stupid.  I heard a lot of crap about brokeback (you knew someone would mention it) and I never got the big deal.  did it only get acclaim BECAUSE of the homosexuality?  I wasn't interested in seeing it, ever.  Love stories are boring to me... even if it was 2 chicks instead of dudes.  but, whatever.  to sum up:  get over it, people.  focus your hate energy on something worth fighting/hating... gas prices!!!

Jamie

www.67thavenue.com

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Need a laugh? Read my comic!

If people are gay, they're gay. It dosen't bother me a bit.

What does bother me, however, is that some gays scream about tolerance and for us to be open minded. But can't afford us the same curtousy. Oh no. If someone is proud to be straight, we're automatically bible thumping, redneck, republican, nazi bigots. Homophobic on top of it all.
    How is that? I mean, yeah, I can't deny the straight pride movement is chalk full of those people, but way to go making a gross generalization there. You're absolutly right, because I'm proud of my sexuality, I'm all of the above right?

TOLERANCE IS A TWO WAY STREET.

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...My wings were just so tasty.


I love mankind, it's people I can't stand.

In the end, it comes down to just how right you belive you are. The farther you are from an objective standpoint the more likely you are to try to destroy or grow the gay community. It's a idea, not a weed. No matter how much you hate it or love it, you can't just campaign a milita aginst it or recruit everyone you can. Sure, it works in the short term, but there's no way to completly destroy an idea, even by lynching every homosexual in the world, the idea is still there. You also can't just turn everyone in the world gay either. It's an idea (This makes about 3 of  times i'm going to mention that in this post) , and ideas have to take root in a willing mind for it to really stick, some people won't join and some people will just bounce back to thier old ways if it dosen't. Theoretically, it is possible to wipe out the human race by decreasing the birth rate with homosexuality, but logically you have better chances of getting hit with a comet carrying 6 million fully-formed, intelligent life forms each carrying a winning lottery ticket from every state in the U.S. excluding the District of Colombia, witch isin't even a state per say but a territory, but some people need reminding.

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Writer still looking for an artist.

Mod-Inside:

If people are gay, they're gay. It dosen't bother me a bit.

What does bother me, however, is that some gays scream about tolerance and for us to be open minded. But can't afford us the same curtousy. Oh no. If someone is proud to be straight, we're automatically bible thumping, redneck, republican, nazi bigots. Homophobic on top of it all.
    How is that? I mean, yeah, I can't deny the straight pride movement is chalk full of those people, but way to go making a gross generalization there. You're absolutly right, because I'm proud of my sexuality, I'm all of the above right?

TOLERANCE IS A TWO WAY STREET.

I disagree, theres a big difference between raising your fist at a black pride rally than at a white pride rally; Its all about what your pride stands for. If you belong to group that is openly discriminated against (racial/ethnic minority, homosexual, etc.) then pride is about standing up for your right to exist as who you are. If you don't belong to a minority however, then pride is about supressing the beliefs that oppose your way of thinking.

You say you are proud to be straight. Why? Straight people are mostly homophobic, so you can't be proud of your social group's beliefs as a whole. And you can't be proud to stand up for your rights, because your rights aren't being threatened.

Tolerance will only become a two way street when everybody is treated equal.

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"Try and lay an egg."

sitesmithscott wrote:
    There is no mention anywhere in the Bible of a commandant, command or speach of either God or Jesus that says "No gays!".

This statement is not accurate.  I'm not a bible-thumper and I don't really care what anybody else believes, but our discussion should be based on correct facts.  See King James:

    Leviticus 18:22: You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination

    Leviticus 20:13: If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death, their blood is upon them.

So the Bible does, in fact, have something to say about homosexuality.  Of course, these are the same sections of the Bible that say you should be put to death if you wear wool and linen together.  So take it for what it's worth to you.

sitesmithscott wrote:
     I also don't think someone can be born gay.  To do so invites the concept of genetics and therefore genetic mutation that causes someone to be gay.  Then such behavior can be considered a genetic disorder and also an evolutionary dead-end since two of the same gender can't mate without outside intervention.  My personal theory is that homosexuality is a result of environment and something known as population stress.  In nature we know there are certain frogs that will change gender when their population is too heavy one way or the other.  Perhaps humans do this on a social level.  As I said, it's a theory.

I have a number of problems with this line of reasoning.  To boil it down, you say that homosexuality is a genetic dead end so therefore it can't be genetic.  Nevertheless you say that we humans can "become" homosexual -- meaning, to me, that there is still some inbred characteristic (genetic trait) that allows us to become homosexual.  Why wasn't that a genetic dead end?  And why does "population stress" bring it out?  And why are there homosexuals in rural areas and other places without much "population stress"?  In fact, homosexuals are found in EVERY society on the planet.  This, to me, greatly weakens the environmental / societal arguments.

The next time you have a close gay friend who is willing to talk about his homosexuality, ask him/her when he began to realize he was gay.  Ask him/her whether he/she thinks his homosexuality was the result of some kind of environmental / societal pressure, stress, or conditioning.  Then ask YOURSELF whether your heterosexuality is, perhaps, the result of societal expectations.

Anyway, like I said, I don't really care what other people do.  And to me that is the core problem in our society with this and similar issues: Why do people insist on denouncing, compelling, persuading, terrorizing, and killing people they don't agree with?

Peace,
Eddie

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VOTE VITO: Line Item Vito

"You say you are proud to be straight. Why? Straight people are mostly homophobic, so you can't be proud of your social group's beliefs as a whole. And you can't be proud to stand up for your rights, because your rights aren't being threatened." - Spree

So you mean because most (white)people are homophobic, that I have to conform to that to be proud? I'm not sure I'm reading it the way you intend me to. And just because my rights aren't threatened dosen't disallow me the right to be proud.

I was born white. So this means I can't be proud because white people in the past have surpressed others? I was born straight, so this means because other straight people oppress gays and such, I'm not allowed to be proud?

Like I said in my first post, I don't care what people do with other people. That's thier thing. But I refuse to take shame in what I am because I was made this way. It's not my fault I'm white and part of the majority. Just like how it's not thier fault they're black/asian/latin and gay/bi/transexual.

Another thing, by telling me that I'm not allowed to be proud of my sexual orientation because it's a majority, but that the minority is allowed that right is a double standard.

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...My wings were just so tasty.


I love mankind, it's people I can't stand.

I think humans have this funny thing about being considered "animals", but they are, and for many people, equally controlled by their instincts, despite how much they think their free will makes them different. 

Animals kept in close confines have shown tendancies to have larger amounts of homosexual tendancies.  There is a lot of research on the subject.  It makes sense to me that humans would show the same tendancies (and as far as I can tell, they do, percentage wise there seems to be much less (though not none!) homosexuals in smaller tribes/villages/etc, even in non-christian areas where there is less stigma)

And while it seems like a trait that should die, sexuality itself is a trait "added" to us as animals to help us survive, and its not always a "good" thing to have rampant population growth, despite what politicians say about future social security. ;)

I have no problem with gays, have worked with many gay people in the past, used to have a roommate that was gay.  I think gays are ok, I think transsexuals need mental help though to overcome their issues(I'm sorry, I don't believe in a spirit, and I don't believe that guys have distinctly guy personalities or that women have distinctly women personalities....  oh well, this should be another thread).

Of course lesbians and bi-sexual women are great, need more of them out there. ;)

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Richard M.
Grimfang
"Whisper"
Xaeraes

Can you back that up with science? Can you 'prove' that homosexuality is wrong without throwing the bible, which is a weak argument even if you beleive in it's teachings? I doubt it. The trick with your statement is that as far as I'm concerned, there is no hell, and no god. Your belief system does not apply to me. So we are very far from the end of the story. I'd love to hear you try to defend closed-mindedness rationally though.

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I swear, now you're just doing it to piss me off.

Some of this discussion seems to only be an effort to antagonize gays and gay supporters.  So, don't get drawn in too deeply.  Don't believe everything somebody types into a forum.

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VOTE VITO: Line Item Vito

*sigh* I guess I shouldn't post when I'm already pissed about stuff, but my statement stands. I'd love to hear him back up that statement non-religiously. (That's not sarcasm either, I love a good debate.)

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I swear, now you're just doing it to piss me off.